DMVR

Des Moines Valley Region SCCA Forums
It is currently Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:24 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 887
Location: 68th and Hickman Rd. Des Moines
BBWWWAAAAHHHH!

I hear an old man's fight beginning... look out at the next autocross!

RD

_________________
Racer Dan
DMVR Solo, PDX, Rally Cross, Pace Car Driver, and general goof off guy!
Commander, NCM Fighter Squadron


Owner- Cottman Car Repair and Transmissions- Des Moines- We service / repair cars & trucks!
cell- 515-979-8473; shop =515-331-2100
96 Corvette GS, 2011 Camaro Bumble Bee, 73 Stars and Stripes Corvette convertible. Owner- road race cars: 69 Vintage Hugger Orange SS Camaro #48: Co owner- 1991 Cottman Miata #95.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:35 am
Posts: 442
Location: Ames
dchamp wrote:
It's too bad that the Lemons people have that perception about SCCA.


Its not just Lemons people its NASA people as well and probably other clubs. When money is involved it tends to make things corrupt. In my Super Touring class at NASA we don't have enough people to be earning contingency at most races and because of that we are all friends and nothing is a big deal, in fact the three of us at the top of ST1 share radios and are in contact with each other during the race to let the others know about track conditions.

I think there are too many people in SCCA taking things too seriously and that is why it doesn't appeal to the Lemons or NASA crowds.

_________________
-Steve
Image
1964 Triumph TR4 | 1967 Austin Cooper S | 2017 Elan NP01


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 887
Location: 68th and Hickman Rd. Des Moines
Quote: "Its not just Lemons people its NASA people as well and probably other clubs."

Ouch! That sounds kind of harsh!


OK, can you guys tell me how I can change that perception of SCCA and/or club racing? I have been in SCCA and Club Racing since 1993 in Des Moines, and do not see what others talk about here. Could it be a competition thing? Is this from a different Region than Des Moines?

I know we see this in all fields including retail, where people see themselves as competitors, and think other competitors do this or that bad. Not that they are mean or anything, it is just misinformation or gossip that might not be exactly true or right on the mark. Some do it as a protection to keep others from thinking that another club is good or having fun. I have been to the last 15 club races, and had a ball at al lof them, and have only seen two racers leave mad, due to one hitting the other at one event. I figure that happens anywhere.

Was there aspecific instance or things that happened that caused this vision, or was it more of a general thing that developed over the years, maybe due to someone being rude, etc?

I ask not to be confrontational, but becasue I want to have a good relationship and mutual respect with all clubs. We should help each other and have fun doing it, in my opinion!

I would really like to go to one of your meetings, and listen to any comments too. Maybe a face to face will help build better relations. Would that be possible?

Thanks for any help, felel free to post to me in private if you would rather keep it from being public. My email is: Dan73Vette@AOL.com

Thanks for any help and response.

Racer Dan

_________________
Racer Dan
DMVR Solo, PDX, Rally Cross, Pace Car Driver, and general goof off guy!
Commander, NCM Fighter Squadron


Owner- Cottman Car Repair and Transmissions- Des Moines- We service / repair cars & trucks!
cell- 515-979-8473; shop =515-331-2100
96 Corvette GS, 2011 Camaro Bumble Bee, 73 Stars and Stripes Corvette convertible. Owner- road race cars: 69 Vintage Hugger Orange SS Camaro #48: Co owner- 1991 Cottman Miata #95.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:57 am
Posts: 439
Location: Beaverdale
I'm just going to throw up my extremely limited experience with the road racing group. I went to a SCCA membership meeting last year or the year before. I had never been to one before, but wanted to attend to support autocross and see what the meetings were about. There were several autocrossers there and we were looked down on by a few of the road racers. I remember overhearing one of the guys say to another something along the lines of "those are the guys that don't have the balls to do real racing". It wasn't done in jest, they genuinely looked down on us. That really left a sour taste in my mouth because I feel that autocross is a good gateway for road racing and lessons learned in parking lots can eventually transfer to road courses.

Of course, I know that not all road racers are this way (I have a lot of respect for you), but I have met a few of the "bad apples" myself and they definitely made an impact.

_________________
Running - 2004 Subaru Forester XT

Under Construction - 1986 Mazda RX-7 GXL


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:45 pm
Posts: 522
Location: Oskaloosa
Wow. That sucks. I have noticed that a little bit also.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 887
Location: 68th and Hickman Rd. Des Moines
Thanks for the story and feedback!

Most Road Racers come from an Autocrossing background, as I did. I remember hearting that when I was younger, too. I think it is kind of a tease/ dare to come and catch me on the track thing. It worked for me, but I still cant catch some/ many of them!

BUT, I have also seen autocrossers beat road racers on the autocross course, like at our shootout at Iowa Speedway a year ago. Revenge is oh sooo sweet!

I think it is a good lesson to learn that we shoulld be respectful of everyone elses choice as to what direction they take at racing. We are all racers, have that need for speed and adrenaline, and whether we do it below 80 mph, or over 160 mph, for 50 seconds or 35 minutes at a time is up to us.

Man's ego has always made him competitive, but being friendly is always more important that being faster to me. We do have to set the example, dont we!

I am also glad that you see that "one person's comments does not a group make". Last year I was walking by a competitors car, and noticed his exhaust pipe was about to come apart under his car. The race was within 10 minutes of starting, and he was always faster than me. If I had kept my mouth shut, I would have surely beat him. I know he passed me at least once that race, after fixing the exhaust and stiill making it to the grid in time to start in his normal position.

I know of several racers who have loaned out tires and wheels to others in the same class, too. We loaned a set of brand new ones for a guy going to the runoffs. Depending on the class, I suppose it controls how competitive we are, but it sure would be lonely racing by yourself!!! We got to keep our competitors happy so we have someone to race against!

And we need new Road Racers from the autocross world who are ready to do something that lasts a lot longer and costs a lot more, but is equally fun!

Thanks again for sharing! I will be trying hard to keep this from repeating itself!

Racer Dan
RE

_________________
Racer Dan
DMVR Solo, PDX, Rally Cross, Pace Car Driver, and general goof off guy!
Commander, NCM Fighter Squadron


Owner- Cottman Car Repair and Transmissions- Des Moines- We service / repair cars & trucks!
cell- 515-979-8473; shop =515-331-2100
96 Corvette GS, 2011 Camaro Bumble Bee, 73 Stars and Stripes Corvette convertible. Owner- road race cars: 69 Vintage Hugger Orange SS Camaro #48: Co owner- 1991 Cottman Miata #95.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:39 am
Posts: 1074
Location: Urbandale, Iowa
THansenite wrote:
I'm just going to throw up my extremely limited experience with the road racing group. I went to a SCCA membership meeting last year or the year before. I had never been to one before, but wanted to attend to support autocross and see what the meetings were about. There were several autocrossers there and we were looked down on by a few of the road racers. I remember overhearing one of the guys say to another something along the lines of "those are the guys that don't have the balls to do real racing". It wasn't done in jest, they genuinely looked down on us. That really left a sour taste in my mouth because I feel that autocross is a good gateway for road racing and lessons learned in parking lots can eventually transfer to road courses.

Of course, I know that not all road racers are this way (I have a lot of respect for you), but I have met a few of the "bad apples" myself and they definitely made an impact.

This was at a DMVR meeting?

_________________
Greg S.
Swift DB4 - B Mod, 08 Yellow Chevy, 08 335i e92, 65 Mustang 2+2 GT, 70 Honda CL450


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:57 am
Posts: 439
Location: Beaverdale
GregS wrote:
THansenite wrote:
I'm just going to throw up my extremely limited experience with the road racing group. I went to a SCCA membership meeting last year or the year before. I had never been to one before, but wanted to attend to support autocross and see what the meetings were about. There were several autocrossers there and we were looked down on by a few of the road racers. I remember overhearing one of the guys say to another something along the lines of "those are the guys that don't have the balls to do real racing". It wasn't done in jest, they genuinely looked down on us. That really left a sour taste in my mouth because I feel that autocross is a good gateway for road racing and lessons learned in parking lots can eventually transfer to road courses.

Of course, I know that not all road racers are this way (I have a lot of respect for you), but I have met a few of the "bad apples" myself and they definitely made an impact.

This was at a DMVR meeting?


Yep, at Noah's Ark. And that comment was only one of the ones they made. I heard several others come from them before the meeting started and couldn't believe people from the same group would act that way towards fellow racers...autocrossers or otherwise.

_________________
Running - 2004 Subaru Forester XT

Under Construction - 1986 Mazda RX-7 GXL


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:35 am
Posts: 442
Location: Ames
Even at the banquet two years ago I got a bad taste from the road racers, it wasn't actually the racers it was the other workers. Some of the volunteers (who have never even raced in their life) feel that they must make up for that by making themselves feel important and make sure that they apply their authority.

We are not professional racers, most of us just want to go out and have a good time. There are just some people whos personalities don't allow for them to have a good time and they take it out on everyone around them.

_________________
-Steve
Image
1964 Triumph TR4 | 1967 Austin Cooper S | 2017 Elan NP01


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:39 am
Posts: 1074
Location: Urbandale, Iowa
I'm not sure what I should say. The comments you mention are unbelievable. :( (and unacceptable)

I joined DMVR in 1971 and have autocrossed ever since. Ran local, Divisional, and National Rallies in the 70's. And have done a little club racing since 2002. In that time, I have always felt that I was among friends.

From my experience, those that want to "look down" on someone else are not restricted to racing. There are folks like that in any type of competitive activity.

(I need to be honest here, in the last few years my hearing has deteriorated to the point that I can't "overhear" anyone.) :)

_________________
Greg S.
Swift DB4 - B Mod, 08 Yellow Chevy, 08 335i e92, 65 Mustang 2+2 GT, 70 Honda CL450


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:47 am
Posts: 2153
There is a bit of an "us and them" gap between the Solo and Club drivers.

Some of the club racers can be a bit intimidating at first, but most of them are pretty good guys once you get to know them. When I showed up for my Driver's School, they were very welcoming to me as a new driver, and several of them have been very helpful with my car project, loaning tools or advice.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:28 pm
Posts: 674
Like I said earlier all it takes is one and it starts the ball rolling the wrong way.
I know that I have tried to break the ice the first few years between the two groups but if this kind of stuff is still happening in the back ground then it will never change, which is sad and very disappointing as a club.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 887
Location: 68th and Hickman Rd. Des Moines
THERE IS A SOLUTION!
The best way I think to get this resolved is:

Get to an event like the April event at MAM, and get to know each other. People have a tendency to say things that can offend others easily, and not necessarily on purpose, either. People also have a tendency to respect others when they help out or get to know each other at an event they are at. When you go to only one type of event, it is like hanging out with one type of group, it forms clicks that are hard to blend into a group. You form opinions, and stereotype others. As Chris points out, once he got involved at the Drivers School, things changed for him, and I am confidant it will for you too. And I speak from experience, if that matters! The more meetings you go to the more you blend together as a club. And yrs, I am going to push the club racers to go to the Solo evnets, so they can learn they ain't as good as they think they are on a Solo course! :wink:

Sure, some will not want to do this, they do not feel comfortable spreading their wings, so to speak or want to fix the problem. But this is how people learn to respect each other. Remember the new guy in school nobody liked, but once you got to know him, he was OK? Same thing. But there will still be one or two jerks, ignore them! We all get them in every group!

I know I have said things to others that they did not like, but they USUALLY ignore it because they know I did not mean anything harmful or insulting. I do not know everyone, but I do get involved in about everything DMVR does, and it seems to help me understand, respect, and appreciate people more, and vice versus.

As for being a professional Racer, We ALL ARE in the same boat! Everyone should get this on their bucket list. Solo is racing, Club Racing is longer racing , but Pro Racing is better yet, and then there is NASCAR to make Pro Racing look amateur. So no matter what level you are, you will never feel like a real pro racer unless you are NASCAR. Even Club Racers feel like they are not Professional racers (we are called amateur), even if they do not tell you that and act differently.

Then there are the self believed "chosen few" that feel different! Like the guys who get to see themselves on TV! Geeezzz! :mrgreen:

We can use all of you guys help at the April DMVR Race event (our first one at MAM). Here is your chance to find out if I am telling it like it is! Or you can sit at home and keep thinking your way! My way is more fun! April 14/15/16 we will be there, looking to see if you come out and play with the rest of us!

Maybe Mark Hayes will let you drive his Grand Sport! Mark? Mark? Are you there, Mark? Hmmm... never around when you need him...

(Yes, I am an Amateur) Racer Dan

_________________
Racer Dan
DMVR Solo, PDX, Rally Cross, Pace Car Driver, and general goof off guy!
Commander, NCM Fighter Squadron


Owner- Cottman Car Repair and Transmissions- Des Moines- We service / repair cars & trucks!
cell- 515-979-8473; shop =515-331-2100
96 Corvette GS, 2011 Camaro Bumble Bee, 73 Stars and Stripes Corvette convertible. Owner- road race cars: 69 Vintage Hugger Orange SS Camaro #48: Co owner- 1991 Cottman Miata #95.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:01 am
Posts: 123
As a former autocrosser and brand-new road racer, I have a thought.

We could use some crossover events other than the membership meetings. I know we don't PDX around here, but could we arrange something like a meet at a Fast Friday at MAM? I am sure you could get plenty of autocrossers and road racers to show up to that?

That being said, I don't know all the legalities around that, maybe SCCA wouldn't allow it?

Still, it would be a nice way to get everybody out to play in a "meet in the middle" kind of way.

Morgan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 887
Location: 68th and Hickman Rd. Des Moines
If we did this as a Fast Friday on the tracks dime, we would not have to do sanctions, etc. It might be a little cheaper, too as the track does not have to pay for insurance and sanctions like we would. But it would not be an official SCCa event, or covered on their insurance to and from the event, etc.

But I really like your idea!

Make it a challenge! Can we get enough guys there besides you and me?

Racer Dan

_________________
Racer Dan
DMVR Solo, PDX, Rally Cross, Pace Car Driver, and general goof off guy!
Commander, NCM Fighter Squadron


Owner- Cottman Car Repair and Transmissions- Des Moines- We service / repair cars & trucks!
cell- 515-979-8473; shop =515-331-2100
96 Corvette GS, 2011 Camaro Bumble Bee, 73 Stars and Stripes Corvette convertible. Owner- road race cars: 69 Vintage Hugger Orange SS Camaro #48: Co owner- 1991 Cottman Miata #95.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:38 am
Posts: 317
Do it on the Friday before a club race and I'll definitely come out and play. On another Friday, it's still very possible.

Bonus to doing it on a club race weekend is those who want to stick around on Friday night get to enjoy the....uhhh.....Friday night party formerly known as Miataville? Mazdaville worked last year when Volante switched to that open wheel thing, but now that the new car is around....

Spec Miatas make AWESOME track day cars, by the way....and they're pretty fun on an autocross course, too. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:57 pm
Posts: 111
Location: Des Moines,IA
i wouldt love to try my car on a track (might blow my engine though...who can trailer me home$$$ :mrgreen: )


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:01 am
Posts: 123
CorradoInv wrote:
i wouldt love to try my car on a track (might blow my engine though...who can trailer me home$$$ :mrgreen: )


If we get enough participation you may not have a problem finding someone who can trailer you home - but do a little prep work (brake fluid, engine fluids, check things over) and drive smart and this shoudn't be an issue.

I wonder if we could coordinate something for the Friday before the June or August event (June 3rd, August 19th).

Has anybody worked with MAM to set something up before? I am pretty sure if we could get a big enough group we could get a price break to help everybody out - it is normally $120 for non-members or $100 for members.

For the autocross guys - yeah, even $100 is a LOT compared to an autocross, but you get approximately 20x the on-track time so in terms of $ per minute it is pretty good. (Not that the two things are really comparable, but my point is you will NOT leave thinking you needed more track time, you will be exhausted and ready for home...)

I'm going to try to go to the Club Race Drivers meeting at Volante's this weekend and I'll bring it up to see what thoughts people there have.

Morgan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DMVR Enduro
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:39 am
Posts: 1074
Location: Urbandale, Iowa
For those that haven't been to MAM on a Friday before a race, they normally have 3 run groups.

1) Open wheel SCCA race cars with normal Club Racing passing allowed.

2) Closed wheel SCCA race cars with normal Club Racing passing allowed.

3) Fast Friday street cars with restricted passing on some of the straits only.

Also, in the past they have required an orientation school for Fast Friday participants. Don't know if that is still the case. 1/2 day Fast Friday (1:00 to 6:00) is $80.00 for non-members.

_________________
Greg S.
Swift DB4 - B Mod, 08 Yellow Chevy, 08 335i e92, 65 Mustang 2+2 GT, 70 Honda CL450


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
POWERED_BY
Translated by Xaphos © 2007, 2008, 2009 phpBB.fr